planet with us. I don’t think this humancentric view of life that some people do
that – you know, this is, this is a human
domain and we are there to, you know,
lord it over everything else, which is a
kind of Old Testament kind of view of
things, I don’t believe in that. What I think
is we share this planet with other living
creatures and they’ve got as much right
to be here as we have and it’s not our
business to destroy their habitats and we
also have a duty to hand on to the next
generation as well, in as good or a better
condition than we’ve inherited it, which
we’re patently not doing. So as part of
my environmental commitment, the issue
of animal welfare, I see it fitting into that,
really. And I also think if we don’t treat
animals well then we won’t treat humans
well. You know, this whole thing in Nazi
Germany where if you burn books you
end up burning people. Well I think the
same thing about animals. If we treat
animals callously then actually you’ll treat
humans callously, so I think we just need
to have respect for living creatures.
I support all groups who’ve got that
sort of philosophy at heart and they all
manifest themselves in different ways.
I’m pretty interested in organisations
like Born Free, I just think we are losing
species at way beyond the natural
wastage rate and before I’m dead we
could have lost all the tigers, elephants
and lions in the world, and that’s just
terrible. What a terrible thing to do.
from killing an animal. I just don’t
understand it.
Many years ago when I was, when there
was one, I was in the Environmental
Health committee of the District Council,
so whenever that was, and what shocked
me was not actually the, the killing of
the animals, because I think I actually
could see that, people want to eat meat,
that’s fine, but they should be happy and
content with the process. If they’re happy
with the process that’s okay by me, but
they shouldn’t shut their eyes to it and
pretend that this piece of something on
a tray in the supermarket is somehow
devoid from the animal, because it’s not.
I just think we are losing
species at way beyond
the natural wastage rate
and before I’m dead we
could have lost all the
tigers, elephants and
lions in the world, and
that’s just terrible. What
a terrible thing to do.
There is one white male rhino left in
the world. Just one, it’s awful.
It’s just absolutely terrible, really terrible.
And, you know why, why are people
not getting more excited about this? It’s
shocking really, and I don’t want to be
in a world where the only animals are
ones which are there with a direct human
value like, I mean for food purposes. I
don’t want the world like that. I want a
world where there is an area in Africa
where there’s only tigers and giraffes and
whatever else. Why wouldn’t we let them
have it, you know? We’ll go out there in
Land Rovers and take photographs of
them and enjoy them but that’s – that’s
it, really. Why would you want to destroy
everything?
So I hate the idea of people deriving
pleasure from either torture or killing
animals. I just don’t understand it. I
don’t understand why people want to
go foxhunting or bear-baiting or hare
coursing – I just don’t understand
what the pleasure is from that. Er – I
understand why people want to ride
across the countryside, and I can
understand there’s a certain enjoyment
in, in the chase, if you like, but I don‘t
understand the pleasure that derives
14
What worried me about the Ringmer
abattoir (when I went to visit it) was not
the killing of the animals, which seemed
to me to be done in a reasonably okay
manner insofar as you can do that, but
it was the deadness in the eyes of the
a battoir men, the absolute deadness in
their eyes, as if they’d lost all emotion
and switched themselves off, you know?
This is why I was in favour in government
of mandatory CCTV in slaughterhouses.
has been treated over the years has
been really, really terrible. I mean, the
world turns a blind eye to that as well,
just, not thinking about it, because
China’s too powerful, but it is close to
genocide what’s been happening in
Tibet since 1959. In particular, there were
something like, like 6,500 monasteries in
Tibet but within ten years of the Cultural
Revolution it was down to 17, and that’s
the sort of scale of destruction; people
being tortured and killed for having
a picture of the Dalai Lama or flying
a Tibetan flag – just outrageous and
the whole thing is complete lockdown
now, still. It’s under martial law. There’s
CCTV everywhere, all social media and
everything is monitored, it’s just an
absolute kind of police state plus over
there and the world steps aside ‘cause
we can’t do anything about it.
What does the Society do?
The Society is the oldest Tibetan support
society in the world and that reflects the
fact that Britain has got long-standing
connections with Tibet that almost
no other country has. And the reason
for that was because we went around
invading places ourselves in the golden
old days, and from British India we went
across to Tibet – which I don’t think,
anyone else had done at that stage –
and we, for trade purposes reached
agreements, whether they were coerced
or voluntary, I don’t know, probably
a bit of the former, with the Tibetan
administration. And we didn’t just reach
trade agreements, we signed treaties,
you know, the Simla Convention 1914,
so we were there, you know, we had
people there.
I hope you’ve listened to my EP, which
has on there – Animal Countdown, so
you’ll know the title track is about that
whole issue. There’s a, there’s a video
which Born Free helped me put together,
don’t know if you’ve seen it on YouTube,
which has got some awful footage from
them, but – it goes with the song, so
have a look if you get a chance.
We are testimony that a country like Tibet
operated as an independent country
- signing its own treaties, with its own
foreign policy, with its own currency, its
own postage stamps, everything else,
all the marks of an independent country
and the Chinese will pretend that Tibet’s
always been part of China. It hasn’t. But
we were the only people in the world
really who can testify absolutely to the
fact that that’s not true. So we’ve has a
particular role there, I think, we’ve been
important, and that’s why I think we
have the first pro-Tibet society formed in
the world, formed by, not least of all by
someone called Ricky Hyde-Chambers
who helped form it in the late fifties, and
who to my joy is still around and still part
of it.
Are you still involved with the Tibet
Society?
Yes, I’m president of the Tibet Society,
and I want to do more about that.
Someone said I was the patron saint of
lost causes - I am – but the way Tibet
There’s a narrow window to do anything
with this now because if it got to another
ten years since the invasion, and I say
the invasion advisedly, of Han Chinese
who are given an incentive to move
from China proper into Tibet, it’s going